Apparently New 'zilla...

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 09/01/2013 at 20:13 • Filed to: None

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...will arrive just in time for the 2015 Tokyo motor show, the same year as the NSX.

I don't know how do you feel about it, but I will take the example offered by Ferrari and McLaren, and welcome our new hybrid overlords.

GhostZ > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 09/01/2013 at 20:17

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Awesome, since its the 10th year anniversary of the R35 "PROTO" concept at the 2005 Tokyo Motor Show. Earlier concepts were around, but this one was 90% of what the production car would become.

Decay buys too many beaters > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 09/01/2013 at 20:18

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As long as they can keep the weight down, and performance takes priority over greenery, I wholeheartedly agree.

Hell, my 86 could use a lot of help in it's infamous 3-4.5K RPM torque dip, a lightweight hybrid system may be exactly what it needs in a future iteration. (blasphemy, I know)

dieselwagon > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 09/01/2013 at 20:27

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Just ugly. It makes the rendering that was posted earlier look good.

Both scream hybrid though, don't know why but they do.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > dieselwagon 09/01/2013 at 20:29

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You mean that both scream high tech? I guess that's the idea.

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/01/2013 at 20:31

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For me the chain of command for bumping low end torque without sacrificing top end power is:

Intake < Heads < Cam < Injector Mapping/Carbs < Exhaust < Stroke (unless you need to rev high) < Turbo < Supercharger < Twin Turbo < Dual-stage fuel < Twincharging < Electric Hybrid System

So, uh, I wouldn't agree with you unless you've already dropped $50,000 on your 86!

dieselwagon > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 09/01/2013 at 20:34

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You're right, high-tech is the GT-Rs game.

I don't like progress, GT-R peaked at R33. Excuse me while I bury head in sand.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > GhostZ 09/01/2013 at 20:36

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They should make a convertible and a hatchback and a sporty sedan based on it.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/01/2013 at 20:43

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Nope, haven't dumped 50K into the 86

From what I've seen the two most effective ways people have dealt boosting low end torque on the FA20 with it is FI and/or headers. I don't really want to deal with FI at the moment, so I'll be going with equal length stepped headers and a tune along with the intake and catback that I'm currently running.

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/01/2013 at 21:16

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I suspect that they were dropping low-RPM fuel amounts to meet emissions requirements.

I can't wait until 4-5 years down the road a bunch of 86 shells with blown motors (from new forays into tuning) show up on the market. That's engine swap heaven.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/01/2013 at 22:05

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Not, sure about the torque dip being software, as far as I know, nobody has been able to get rid of it with just tuning.

Probably will be plenty of blown up FI builds on the market as people keep trying to one up each other's dyno numbers. Me, I'll be quite happy with about 200whp on the stock tire size.

At least the engine is getting a lot early tuning and testing, tons of people have already installed turbo kits and superchargers so we'll see how they last.

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/01/2013 at 22:19

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The biggest foe of course is going to be packaging. The Impreza had packaging issues, but it looks like a cakewalk compared to the low-and-back mounting of the 86. I've just not been very impressed with the motor for its output or tunability, only for its packaging and efficiency.

I'm going to have to hold out for Nissan's next car, a small sport coupe with a 2.5l engine. I've been waiting for a while, and I've got my money on a QR25DDT. That thing is going to make the SR20DET look like an obsolete junk motor when it comes out. Will it be as efficient or small as the FA20? Nah. Will it be able to hit 400 crank HP with just boost, exhaust, and fuel changes? Hell yes.

Still, an engine-swapped 86 makes me tingle. It's definitely wide enough for some V8s, and seems to take straight-six swaps well. If I had the money (as in, 40k and no worry about warranties) that would be the mod path I'd be going toward.

I'll stick with a 5.0l 240z though as my post-college car.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/01/2013 at 22:56

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You mean the new smaller Z? or are there rumors of a new 240 as well?

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/01/2013 at 23:02

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It's the new, smaller Z. I think they're pricing it about 5k above a spec'd out 86. It will be called a 250z if my guesses are correct. It's supposed to be about as light as an 86, but with about 300 HP out of a 2.5l, conservatively turbo'd direct injection engine.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/01/2013 at 23:10

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I was under the impression that it was going to be introduced with two engines right? A six and a four, with the eventual plan being to phase out the six? Either way I'm sure it will be a beast of a car.

And sorry, pretend I'm 5 for a second, What exactly did you mean by "packaging"?

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/01/2013 at 23:19

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Packing of the engine within the bay. It's the positioning, fitting, and general jigsaw puzzle of getting all the pieces where to go.

Compare Impreza:

BRZ:

Notice how much further back, and how little extra space, the BRZ has compared to even a modified Impreza? And the STi has a turbo, the BRZ doesn't! Also consider that the Impreza has a transmission beneath it to give power to the front wheels, which the BRZ doesn't, and it becomes really clear that the BRZ is a packaging nightmare.

Compare that with a Ford 5.0:

Which has tons of space around and above the engine. Of course, the 5.0 has a worse weight distribution (further out over the axle) than the Subaru.

That's one of the reasons why some cars take to engine swaps so much better. There's enough room that you can put any engine in and put custom mounts. As the free space gets smaller, you have to get more creative with how you position the engine and accessories, especially if you're adding turbos.

As for the Z, I'm not sure if they'll keep using the V6 in the Z. I think they'll have the upmarket Infiniti stay with a V6 in the Q/G37 and keep the Z as a lower-end 4-cylinder model. Point is, Nissan has a 4-cylinder that has more displacement than the original 240Z's straight six, and more power than all Z's before the 300ZX TT. So I'm cool with them going to 4's.

What I really want to see is a nice V8 (VK45DE, about 400HP out of 4.5l) in the Infiniti and the VQ37VHR as a high-end option on the Z. But that's asking a lot.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/01/2013 at 23:35

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A lot of the clutter comes from the intake, looks a lot cleaner without the whole mess.

Not the best picture, but there is a ton of space in front of the block.

I imagine that the packaging will be pretty complex on the new Z as well, it just ends up that way on all new engines.

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/01/2013 at 23:43

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Yeah. I guess I haven't seen a good top-down picture of the BRZ yet to see where the real space is.

Of course, nothing like that is good compared to this:

Or this:

Yeah. That's a 340 (5.6l) in there. Still enough room to squeeze an motorcycle engine in there too.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/02/2013 at 00:43

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Man, both of those engine bays have more open space than the cabin of my 86!

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/02/2013 at 00:52

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Now you see why V8 swaps are so popular for the 240z? (top one) that metal stick weighs more than a SBC, so you actually not only use the extra space, but reduce weight and improve weight distribution by putting a 5.7l engine in there!

The bottom one is a Dodge Challenger I think, and they had the fit the 800lbs 426 hemi. That tells you just how big those motors were compared to their brethren. The 426 weighed 200 more lbs than even a Chevy 454, out of sheer mass.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/02/2013 at 01:02

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Yeah, no kidding, plenty of room to fit pretty much whatever you want in that z.

and good god, 800lbs?!?

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/02/2013 at 01:04

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That's why the 426 Hemis are still used (in design, anyway) in top fuel dragsters. They were so over-specced and over-engineered to take abuse because they had so much more metal than anything else on the market.

My ideal Z swap would be a ford 460, de-stroked and revving to 7000-8000rpm. But that's an expensive, expensive pipe dream. A 302 is a much more reasonable (mostly due to the aftermarket) swap. 351 may be a good median.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/02/2013 at 01:17

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It's probably too low, but would it accept a rotary?

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/02/2013 at 01:33

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Yep. Here's a list of engines I have seen swapped:

Ford 5.0 (old and new)

New Hemi

426 Hemi

Chevy Small Block (LS1, LT1, older Gens)

Chevy 327

Mazda Rotary (non-turbo)

SR20DET

Honda K20A

Ford 289

Nissan VK45DE

RB26

2JZ

1JZ

RB25

etc. etc. etc. I think the only type of swap I haven't seen is V12.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/02/2013 at 01:44

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Wow, I had no idea.

I'm going to have to look into this way more someday when I have more garage space. Sounds like one hell of a configurable project car.

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/02/2013 at 01:47

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The problem is that most of them are rusted out or really overpriced. The last good swappable model is a 76-77 280z, which had the massive front and rear bumpers and some added weight in padding and luxury items. But they had a better differential, 5 speed transmission, and sell for half the price.

Decay buys too many beaters > GhostZ 09/02/2013 at 02:17

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I saw a few relatively clean looking 280Z bodies at my local scrap yard about a month back, but I admit I did not look that close. I was too busy scrounging parts to keep my VW happy.

GhostZ > Decay buys too many beaters 09/02/2013 at 02:29

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the problem is usually the floor panels, behind the fenders, the hatches, and engine mounts/battery tray, so often they will look fine on the outside but have hidden rot inside.